Another cannabilized post (I always feel the need to tell y’all this – I feel dishonest if I don’t put the disclaimer that I wrote this to an email list and am now posting here!) 🙂
The context: a statement made by another listmember: I don’t know how God can even stand us (or something similar). My response, and some more thoughts, follow:
I think here too the Catholic Church is different in our approach to humanity. God created us – each and every single one of us . . . filled us with his very breath/Spirit . . . calls us temples of the Spirit . . affirms that we are made, male and female, in his very image . . . reminds us that we are the body of his son with Jesus as our head . . . loves us so much that our names, our very selves, are carved in the palm of his hand . . . tells us that nothing will ever seperate us from the love he has for us in Christ Jesus . . . reminds us that he constantly searches for us among the lost, constantly calls to us to enter into a relationship with him . . . loves us so much that suffering and dying were done for us even without us asking for anything . . . (all Scriptural quotations, BTW, just too lazy to look them all up and cite – but they are some of my favorite verses) 🙂 God loves us, plain and simple . . . God wants the best for us (for I know the plans I have for you, plans for goodness not for woe . . .”) . . . I think we do God a grave disservice when we picture him as holding his nose when he looks at us 🙂
—End Original Post—
I remember reading that Calvin (maybe – I could be wrong) wrote that people were like a pile of dog poo. It snowed over the dog poo, making it look beautiful, but underneath it was still dog poo. Taking a sacramental worldview (the stuff of creation can be a vehicle for God to break into our lives), we affirm that creation is basically good, not radically corrupt as Calvanism (I hope I got that right!) and other forms of Christianity tend to affirm. While we have been marred / broken / set apart as a bone that needs to be mended, we are still, at our core, good / complete / holy / sacred beings.
Just a quick note as I get ready to go to bed . . . enjoy! 🙂
And a quick question: what Scripture passages do y’all like that affirm God’s loving care for us? Let me know!
Blessings & Peace,
Hugo
Yeah – I saw the TULIP thing on the discussion list and didn’t agree with it . . . though I guess I can see where Calvin and calvanists would move in those directions in opposition to some of the teachings of the RCC @ that time in history.
I like Irenaeus too – I’m a large proponent of our free will as part of God’s gift to us so that we can respond fully free in love to his offer of love.
But that’s just me 🙂
Blessings & Peace,
Hugo
I posted this on another blog, but it seems to fit here also.
Hugo,
I used to think I was a Calvinist because I believe in eternal security. Yet, I find so much wanting in Calvinism I can’t accept it.
T – the Total Depravity of Man
If this is true then Jesus being man born of woman would be under the curse of Adam.
U – Unconditional Election
Their definition of election is really not biblical. It presupposes much that is not there. It also negates the “whosever’s” of John 3:16.
L – Limited Atonement
All are forgiven, yet not all are saved. The atonement is universal, but salvation is not. This is a basic misconception that Forgiveness=salvation. It does not.
I – Irresistible Grace
This is a very limited view of God’s Grace. It seems to deny the fact we are ALL under the grace of God, saved and unsaved as He has all rights to destroy us and start over.
P – the Perseverance of the Saints
Here there is a little validity in their teaching. We persevere because that is our nature as a “new creation”.
Ultimately the whole system denies God to have a free will…. For He can not change from this system. So God becomes a slave to the system. So much for sovereignty.
I see some things in Armenianism that tend towards a “work salvation” and “maintenance” of our own salvation. I think God is better at maintaining my salvation than I am so i let Him do that. haha
I go back to Irenaeus. His view is that man has a free will.
My conclusion is we have a free will, but as we come to the cross we lay it down and receive the will of God. We give our death, to God and He gives us His Life. It is eternal. The old man is dead and crucified, and we are a new creation. We struggle in that sin dwells in our flesh, and being double minded in not accepting that who we were is dead. We must put on the new man.
Of course this is very much simplified here as I am trying to be brief.
Blessings,
iggy
jaded: not too individualistic 🙂 in the end our actions and attitudes will help us determine with God where we’ll end up – but I do still believe in our inherent goodness as we come from an all-good God.
corry: yeah – one of my favorites also – reminds me that when things get too tough I’ve got someone who understands with infinite mercy and care 🙂 And my wife is doing very well, thanks for asking – she’s been weaning herself off of her inhaler and doing well (been four days and only used it once) – her follow up goit pushced back til next week with the lung doc, we’ll see what he has to say.
kc: bible study?!?!? how dare you mention those words on an 86% Catholic blog 🙂
I like that verse, too 🙂
matt: wow – vivid imagery, and so not where I’m coming from! 🙂 Thanks for sharing, though . . . now I know to steer clear of Mr. edwards!
Blessings & Peace,
Hugo
Hey there-
I don’t know if this is the “poo theology” you were thinking of, but Jonathan Edwards said that the “non-elect” are like turds in the sunlight of God: we heat up and give off an odor, but we aren’t changed. Yeah, he really said that.
Hugo this would start a bible study in my neck of the woods. I think I will simply say that I am convinced if we are in Christ when God looks on us then He sees perfection indeed. 🙂 I draw on a number of verses not the least of which is John 3:16
To me, almost the entire Bible shows His love and care for us. But this one is my favorite, it’s saying: come home, relax, you know you are safe:-)
Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Btw, how is your wife doing??
God’s Grace.
Hugo,
I tend to agree with you that people are inheritanly good not evil. I know that my Calvinist brothers will not agree with me, but sorry guys. I do think that each of us deserve eternal death because of our individual sins. I base this off of the passages (again I’m as lazy as you are) that refer to people being punished for their own sins not the sins of their fathers.
Maybe I’m a bit too individualistic, but this is the way I see things.